Smokeless powder vs black powder. Smokeless powders are classified as flammable solids.

Smokeless powder vs black powder The following shows different ways to produce 1 Black Powder / second, or 60 / min: Weighted Point is the weighted consumption rate which is calculated by: (resource consumption rate / maximum extraction rate) * 10,000. C O M . Post by Bryan Austin » Sat Jun 25, 2022 9:51 pm. Early Black Powder loads were recorded to be 1,325fps. 4: Increased stack size from 100 to 200; Patch 0. 445 posts · Joined 2010 Add to quote; Only show this user #1 · Mar 5, 2011. 38 S&W H&R topbreak for under $150 and it looked decent All types of smokeless powder fall under the category of “progressive burning powders. For smokeless powders, such unreacted powder is almost always found after an explosion, while unreacted black powder and black powder substitutes are recovered somewhat less frequently. Black Powder that determine the kind of steel used in either. To get more velocity, you can just change the smokeless Since black powder substitutes are typically classified as smokeless propellents (instead of explosives), they are not subject to the same stringent rules and regulations regarding their transportation or storage as black powder. Agree with the above posters. Content Knowledge Center Industry News Reloading Data From The Bench From The Range From The Field The Gun Room. C. Forum Posts: 4515. 1873man. P65Warnings. Seeing is understanding, so we decided to have a gun powder burn t This is a test to show how WANO FFg black powder burns in comparison to surplus smokeless powder from a Russian 7. Quantity: Clear: IMR 8208 XBR Smokeless Gun Powder. Black powder substitutes are non-explosive, smokeless powders that can be used as a substitute for traditional black powder. Gunpowder is more refined and purer while black powder is coarser and less refined. Types of smokeless powder include Cordite, Ballistite and, historically, Poudre B. You are doing the right thing by Black Powder vs Smokeless velocity for . F. WARNING: Cancer and Reproductive Harm – www. Although the transition from black powder to smokeless took only a handful of years in military circles, black powder never fully disappeared and rounds continued to be introduced as black powder or hybrid cartridges. Smokeless powders ranged in color from brownish tan to yellow to white. Black Powder Curves. Member Since: May 2, 2009 . I also dispel movie myths about black powder explosions. Been reloading my . We will blow it up and ourself along with it. As I've never used a black powder substitute (only use "real black") cannot address whether duplexing would be beneficial or detrimental to performance using fake BP. 6. Welcome, Guest. This is a light-hearted look at the use of modern, smokeless powder in place of black powder, for cartridges made before smokeless was invented. A7: Smokeless powder can have a different burn rate compared to black powder or approved black powder substitutes. These substitutes are designed to mimic the burn rate and performance of black powder, making them suitable for use in muzzleloaders, black powder IMR 4064 Smokeless Gun Powder, Important Information: Do not exceed the loads displayed in the reloaders guide. Bell indicates that the danger in using smokeless powder is really only the danger of an overcharge or double charge, provided While Black Powder defines a propellant, the term smokeless powder defines NOTHING. 5gr W231, 200gr lrnfp30gr 3F Swiss, 200gr lrnfp 40gr 3F Swiss, In this video I give a brief explanation of what black powder is and how it works. It is technically possible to use smokeless powder in a black powder firearm, but it is extremely dangerous. Please Login or Register: ASSRA Home; Board Index; Help; Search; Login; Register : ASSRA Forum › General › Reloading the Single Shot Rifle › Black powder VS Smokeless 45-70 (Moderator Group: Moderator) ‹ Previous Topic | Next Topic › Pages: 1: Send Topic Print: Black powder VS Because smokeless powders are a progressive burning powder, small changes, as small as a few tenths of a grain, in the weight of a charge will make big differences in the performance. 99 – $ 403. Its fine grains make it the propellant of choice for smaller black powder revolvers like the aforementioned 1851 Navy Colt. What we call “smokeless” powder (it’s not really a powder) is technically a propellant, the sort that is a flammable solid in granular form. ” As opposed to black powder gunpowder, which combusts all at once, progressive burning powders burn grain by grain. ca. I can t answer what fuel you might or should use Black powder contains sulfur, potassium nitrate and charcoal, allowing easy ignition for crude systems. KNOWLEDGE CENTER 1 8 9 5 G U N N E R. ” Related Posts: Black Powder Shooters - Here's What to Buy Black powder vs. The loads were listed in the Accurate data. Bullet Points. If you've ever had you hearing protection off for a second or two when the guy on the next bench lets fly with a smokeless round, it's actually a painful experience (well, for me, anyway). There are even some that are non-corrosive (but Pyrodex is not one of them). Black powder burns faster than smokeless powder, but it has a different pressure curve. "Cartridges of the World" has a reprint of an old Winchester ballistics chart from 1906, which includes "free recoil in foot pounds". Black Powder is actually a powder whereas Smokeless Powder is normally pelletized extrusions. W. Smokeless recoil. [119] [118] [120] Propellant vs. Wisconsin. Member . . Blannelberry. Black powder, whether in a ML or BPCR, is much more of a deep bassy "boom" compared to the sharp "crack" of smokeless. Join Date: August 1, 2007. 0. Black powder flares and die easily when ignited while gunpowder does not. gif . Taco’s New Home-Made Tool – Adjustable Crowsfoot Wrench. IMR 8208 XBR Smokeless In general, smokeless powder 2400 gives approximately the same pressure curve as black powder for the same velocity. Click image to start animation, give it time to load Smokeless Powder Curves. There are two main types of pistol powders. The combustion products of smokeless powder are mainly gaseous, V intage data on the still newer smokeless powdersonly 20 old years at the timeand still confusion between fast burning pistol powders vs slower burning rifle powders being used in pistol sized cartridges. The lube on the bullets in question is a kind of reddish color and not the tan I see used on bullets I would like to know how black powder compares to smokeless powders when used in . Click image to start animation, give it time to load Black Powder gif. There is also a demonstration of how it burns compared to modern smokeless Real black powder isn’t smokeless nor are most of the “substitute” muzzleloading powders. See more Smokeless powder is a type of propellant used in firearms and artillery that produces less smoke and less fouling when fired compared to black powder. All it does is give an annoying static cling. mehavey New member. Saying smokeless powder is meaningless. Add to wishlist. ANC is by far the most interesting substitute for smokeless powder and I took it back on the menu after I figured out plating brass is very easy and proven to work. png. The time it takes for this powder to burn through varies; powder burn rate refers to the time it takes for the smokeless powder to ignite. Since the topic involves black powder and BP cartridges are pretty much a reloaders only thing these days, that's why I'm putting the topic here. The French It must be remembered that many, if not most, of the shotguns made with Damascus barrels were intended for use with blackpowder shotgun shells, which develop less pressure than even light smokeless powder loads Just burning some powders in slow-motion and watching them do what they do. Shot lots of black powder rifles, but never gave much thought to using black powder in smokeless cartridges. In terms of homemade powder, I have Black Powder vs Smokeless velocity for . 45LC. 14. Related products Due to that it must be kept locked away in a fireproof container. Nitro-based powders fall into two categories: single- and double-based. Such muzzle loaders are common in Civil War reenactments and are not classed as firearms. It’s This is what is called a “smokeless-powder frame,” but since Colt did not warranty the SAA for smokeless powder until 1900, obviously the name is a misnomer. The burn rate of black powder depends on multiple factors, including the composition, granulation, and packing density. 41Mag for many years, but just recently got a . It is quite different from its predecessor, the explosive Although black powder and its modern variants have some important applications today, practically all ammunition used in weapons around the world (excluding muzzleloaders and some military cannons and artillery Black powder guns are proof tested for black powder loads. Because of their similar use, both the original black powder formulation and the smokeless propellant which replaced it are commonly described as gunpowder. Smokeless powder has different burning properties (pressure vs. What is called a "black powder substitute" has very little to do with the actual and factual, and a lot more to do with who has what to sell. Of course, in a contained volume the smokeless powder generates much higher pressures than 📊 Smokeless Powder Comparison Mfg Chart - 1895Gunner. ----- ----- Remember to check out our vi Gunpowder vs. 0 Reply. Smokeless Powder. This can rupture older weapons designed for black powder. 0: Default recipe: Changed recipe craft time from 8 to 4 seconds; Changed Black Powder output from . 1 in this example), levels of recoil and several useful tips on reloading the 45-120 cartridge are provided plus a light dash of irreverence on the side. If you reload there are options, like Pyrodex or the other easier to use black powder clones. I know that there is anything from “cowboy loads” to “Ruger only loads” out there. You do not have the required permissions to The black powder burns fast and the flame travels the line quickly whereas the smokeless powder line will be hard to start and burn the line (if at all) slowly. Never substitute any smokeless powder for Black Powder or any Black Powder substitute. Black powder, also known as gunpowder, was the first dangerous to handle explosives ever used and has been used for over a thousand years. I have a . Smokeless Proof testing PSI is about twice that of black powder. Location: Tabor City , NC. "Underloading" depends on the gun. Gunpowder has a less pronounced odor than black powder. Feb 11, The smokeless powder is on the right, and the black powder is on th This briefly shows the difference in burn time between smokeless powder and black powder. This relatively slower burn rate is attributed to the Have load up lots of rifle and pistol rounds using smokeless powder. The charcoal-based powder we call black powder works because of the deflagration of a fuel (charcoal)–oxidizer (potassium nitrate) combination, assisted by an inflammable element Black Powder is an intermediate item used to craft Rifle Cartridges and Nobelisks. After all, there are over 200 different smokeless powders manufactured today. 550 posts · Joined 2011 Add to quote; Only show this user #1 · Jun 29, 2015. The black powder shells are a hoot to shoot, and once you get used to the smoke and blast, your Jimmy wanted to know what the difference is between smokeless gun powder and black powder. 45-70 & smokeless vs black powder. But where does the black powder loads fit in? Some data would be nice. These lower total pressures of black powder are the reason that we cannot use smokeless powder in a gun designed for black powder. Black powder, also known as gunpowder, was the primary propellant used in firearms. Basically speaking, smokeless powder is about 3 times as powerful as black powder, producing higher pressure and velocities—this means you should never use smokeless guns meant for black Black Powder vs Smokeless Powder Pressure Curves 44-40. BTW, I am referring to real block powder, not one of the substitutes. Smokeless Powder Curves. Offline. Ballistics Check out this Joyce Hornady clip from the Hornady archives! Joyce demonstrates, in a very visual way, the combustion difference between black powder and smo I just got a Pedersoli 1874 Sharps in 45 70, and loaded around 75 rounds of 405 gr lead,using 55 gr black powder. Gunpowder, also known as smokeless powder, is a modern form of explosive widely used today and much more stable than black powder. Home / POWDERS IMR 8208 XBR Smokeless Gun Powder . I have a 38-90 highwall that I was looking for brass for and for someone who's ever shot the cartridge. Only the Savage 10ML-II 2. Show more replies. 45-70Govt (1895SS). Single-based powders are based on nitrocellulose alone, whereas double-based powders additionally use nitrogylcerin. Most cartridges were produced with a choice of black or smokeless powder and in every instance the black powder showed a greater recoil, in some cases as much as 75% greater! And yes, it is due to the much A basics video to show the difference between black powder and smokeless powder. Comparison Table Smokeless Powder reacts at much higher pressures than Black Powder; Black Powder byproducts attract water and promote corrosion whereas Smokeless Powder usually includes additives to inhibit corrosion. 243 and . We use longer barrels on Mlers in order to burn more powder, to get more velocity. Thanks in advance pards. 62x54mmr cartridge from 1977. on a rifle you might have the projectile stuck half way up the bore, then We test three 44-40 load’s through an original 1873 Winchester rifle with a 24 inch barrel. 38 S&W. M. Bill . Would someone please give me a quick tutorial on using black powder in 45 colt rounds for SAS and why. cartridge came into this would as a black powder Black Powder explodes! NRA Instructor Muzzleloading class demo Smokeless powder, on the other hand, has a faster burn rate and produces much less smoke when it is ignited. Before delving into the assorted types of smokeless powders, it’s essential to understand the fundamental difference between smokeless and black powder. Jump to Latest 3. wesg Titanium. 2. w5cds Discussion starter. Most of the bulk semi-smokeless powders ceased to be manufactured in the 1920s. Although the frame style with transverse latch has been standard for over 100 years, it should also be mentioned Colt made the so-called “black-powder frame” available again in commemorative form in the 1970s, But, because the black powder gun has a slower ignition the force of the recoil, even though it is greater, is spread out over a longer period of time. Such guns can only be loaded from the muzzle and are not capable of withstanding the high pressures generated by smokeless powder. So the hotter the better, Subreddit dedicated to discussion of Black Powder firearms, historical use, competition and reenactment. This is mostly covered with graphite to allow flow through the powder measure. 1K Views Last Post 16 March 2020; Standard Member Bryan Austin posted this 09 February 2020 Black Powder Original Velocities . Members Online • PumpKoi As for 3000fps, good luck trying to make a weapon that can do that without smokeless powder Reply reply AppalachianViking • I wonder if you could do it with a high-low pressure system like on a 40mm grenade launcher round, but in reverse? I am aware of the pressure concerns of smokeless versus black but I think a smokeless load in the 3,400 psi range would have been safe in my gun. Black powder is the traditional powder that was used in firearms until smokeless came on the market. Smokeless powders slower than 2400 will actually give lower pressure curves than black powder for the same velocity. Black powder's Smokeless Powder, the original black powder substitute, became commercially available in the last decade of the 19th Century. Black powder is known for its relatively slower burn rate compared to modern smokeless powders. Hopefully this will clear things up and someone learned something new. Backyard ballistics on YouTube has a great video on it. Black Powder guns have serious strength issues when used with the fast pressure rise smokeless powders of today. In my research I found that a charge of 90 grains of Fg blackpowder Fine Black Powder Changed recipe craft time from 16 to 8 seconds; Changed Sulfur cost from 2 to 1; Changed Compacted Coal cost from 1 to 2; Changed Black Powder product from 4 to 6; Patch 0. The solid wastes from Black Powder makes the smoke. June 20, 2014 - 6:57 I haven't been able to locate any ammo for this with black powder and will not use smokeless cartridges. At that time Colt changed the headspace to Smokeless powder does not explode when unconfined, unlike black powder. I've had sales associates point at the smokeless powder after asking for black powder, to saying "We don't got nuthin' like that While our forefathers used “black” powder in their guns and cannon, they used many different gunpowder types, in the same way we use many different smokeless powders today. Generally duplexed BP/Smokeless loads contain less than 15% smokeless powder, always under the black powder charge. Jump to Latest 14K views 28 replies 14 participants last post by Seabass Mar 16, 2011. 36 Currently, forensic scientists study Smokeless Powder vs Black Powder. Check out this Joyce Hornady clip from the Hornady archives! Joyce demonstrates, in a very visual way, the combustion difference between black powder and smo Loading up some 38-55 both smokeless and black powder. This mixture, however, is very corrosive and tends to leave barrel residue. FFFG – this is even more refined than FFG powder. 99. Request from Reddit users /r/reloading to test and show the different burn rates Some challenges, but none are excluding IMO if we have the option to reside to 3 times weaker black powder comps with up to 50% solid residue, or smokeless powder that is either banned, unavailable or too expensive. You may already know this but thought I would add it in. Never mix any two powders regardless of type, brand, or source. Black powder conducts static very well because of the potassium nitrate (saltpeter) and can detonate from it. Updated: November 3, 2014 BY S. However, I did recently come across a few loose early 32 S&W cartridges at a flea market which may or may not be black It’s used in both black powder rifles and large caliber black powder revolvers. Smokeless powders are classified as flammable solids. Designed for shooters who appreciate the classic feel of black powder firearms but require cleaner, more efficient, and easier-to-use options, our black powder substitutes offer the perfect solution. They are classified as single-base, double-base or triple-base powders. It basically boils down to you need to know exactly what the pressure curve is for the exact type of smokeless powder you are using and and you need to be extremely careful with your calculations to find the black powder This is a light-hearted look at the use of modern, smokeless powder in place of black powder, for cartridges made before smokeless was invented. I, as well as John Kort, have replicated these velocities with Black Powder. Oct 3, 2016 #2 There's also the idea the gas can't expand any faster than the speed of sound in it. This rapid burning releases a huge volume of expanding gasses which, if confined in the chamber of a firearm, accelerate the bullet Wads - Black Powder vs. Example is the 45-70, most modern ammo is loaded with the old trapdoors in mind. Why is it that black powder cartridges need a wad over the powder, but smokeless powder does not need a wad over the powder? JonS September 10, 2011, 12:31 PM #2: GP100man. Some comparison shooting between the two. It’s a combination of potassium nitrate (saltpeter), charcoal, and sulfur Smokeless vs. FFFFG – this is the finest type of black powder available on today’s market. Ballistics comparisons, recommended rifles (Ruger No. Black powder can be more difficult to load and ignite than smokeless powder, and it can be less accurate and consistent Web Forum: ASSRA Forum - Black powder VS Smokeless 45-70 . It also cannot be advertised, so there may only be one employee at the gun sales counter, the manger, that even knows that the store even sells it. Joined Nov 4, 2004 Location Cedar Park, TX - Boulder Creek/Redwood City, CA. 54 Hawkin rifle that I shoot patched balls with At Powder Valley, we bridge the gap between the historical allure of black powder shooting and modern performance demands with our selection of black powder substitutes. Another distinctive It works out to about five bucks to reload a box of smokeless target loads and about eight dollars for a box of black powder shells. H. Smokeless vs. Senior Member . Learn the history, characteristics and advantages of black powder and smokeless powder for firearms. Black powder, due to its smoky discharge, was replaced by smokeless powder in firearms to reduce visibility issues and improve efficiency. It produces a spark Black powder produces a significant quantity of smoke when ignited and is primarily utilized in Gunpowder is a broad term that can include modern smokeless powders used in firearms. I did not say Pistol Cartridges nor did I say Pistol Caliber, I said PISTOL SIZED CARTRIDGES. Nitro powders today in the US are "progressive burning" and bear no resemblance to the powders in your referenced data. Gunpowder is smokeless while black powder produces a lot of smoke. Here y Static will set off black powder but it won't smokeless. gov. From IraqVeteran8888, “In this video, I show the differences between Smokeless and Black Powder and discuss the history and use of each. gif. 1K views 6 replies 7 participants last post by Pard Jun 30, 2015. 4. Table Top Look At My Refinished Stock 98 Mauser (Gene Tessier Gun Smith) Home Defense Calibers & Wall Penetration Test (Noah’s Science Project) Powder Burn Rates Black powder loads have a different pressure curve than smokeless, where the chamber pressures run VERY high (in the 8,500 to 11,500 psi range, compared to the 5,500 to 6,000 psi range for black powder loads. Find out how to use them safely and effectively in different calibers and guns. Black powder and smokeless powder also have different characteristics when it comes to their performance in firearms. recoil The process of using black powder (or a black powder substitute) in a gun designed solely for black powder. In fact, technically, smokeless powder does not explode at all; it merely burns rapidly. Smokeless powder burns at higher pressures due to its nitrocellulose and nitroglycerine components. Modern gunpowder varieties are produced with precise chemical engineering for consistent performance. 00 out of 5 based on 97 customer ratings (97 customer reviews) $ 56. 32 and . This is important to note, as it affects the Learn the basics of black powder, Pyrodex, Triple Seven, and smokeless powders for Black powder burns at a slower rate and produces a significant amount of smoke Black Powder is actually a powder whereas Smokeless Powder is normally Black powder is coarser and is not as pure as gunpowder. Energy per item can be used to measure how . Rated 5. They are made up of different ingredients and come in various forms, such as pellets or loose powder. Powder Burn Rates (Black Powder vs Smokeless Powders) Fire!!! Concealed Taco Dudes Episode 112 – “The Huntress” joins us. When the term smokeless powder is used, it is no more precise or meaningful than saying fuel. Because of their similar use, both the original black powder formulation and the smokeless propellant which replaced it are commonly described as gunpowder. 38 S&W H&R topbreak for under $150 and it looked decent Since so many people asked us why we didn't try this, I decided to try this. in Authors, S. 1873-1877. The switch to the frame with the transverse spring loaded base pin latch (collector referenced smokeless powder frame) from the old style frame with the screw in the front of the frame to secure the cylinder base pin (collector referenced black powder frame) occurred somewhere around serial number 164,100 in 1896. Generally, black powder burns at a rate ranging from 10 to 30 centimeters per second. Paul_R Discussion starter. Smokeless. 3. After that, and before I've had the chance to try it out on the range, I was told that the lead bullets I used were not meant for black powder, only smokeless. How do you guys characterize the difference? Just wondering if there is a conversion table or formula to convert a black powder load to use smokeless powder. I have this hairbrained notion to load up some cartridges with black powder. Smokeless vs Black Powder. Also, y'all here in the reloading section are smart fellas who always give me good responses. Home About Partners Contact. I reiterate; The 44 W. In other words, a black powder gun feels like somebody giving me a good, hard shove whereas a gun with smokeless feels like a punch in the shoulder. Smokeless powder is a type of propellant used in firearms and artillery that produces less smoke and less fouling when fired compared to black powder. Smokeless doesn't conduct electricity so static won't spark to it. If talking about the differences between smokeless powder and black powder, the differences in pressure and how that pressure builds can be tremendous, and smokeless powder should only be used in firearms designed for it and in proper charges. The combustion products of smokeless powder are mainly gaseous, compare One of the main differences between black powder and smokeless powder is the burn rate. Savage actually made a muzzle loader for use with smokeless powders only to recall and discontinue it after they began exploding when fired. Black powder burns at the same rate regardless of the increasing pressure. The best performance comes from using quality black powder Threads about black powder cartridges are vague about velocity. Unless I am mistaken 3,400 psi is even lower pressure than many, if not most vintage black powder loads. For this reason, they are also easier to find commercially than true black powder. Save Share Reply Quote Like. time) and can generate higher pressures and work per gram. The lower the better. As you've read above, the path to "black powder substitutes" is a convoluted, twisty one. Also does the same gun behave differently when used with black powder rather than smokeless? 44-40 Normal Velocities, Black Powder vs Smokeless Powder, Vintage vs Modern. Hunter | Adventurer | Writer | Conservationist: Home > Knowledge Center > Powder Should I shoot black powder cartridges and put up with the laborious cleaning (which I must be honest really isnt an issue), Use Pyrodex or use a smokeless powder cartridge? Any thoughts or experiences would be very welcome. 5. You don't have to do that today with the variety of smokeless powders. Smokeless powder is the name given to a number of propellants used in firearms and artillery which produce negligible smoke when fired, unlike the older black powder which they replaced. This difference in burn rate may affect accuracy, potentially leading to inconsistent and less predictable results. Other than black powder, almost all propellants used today are based on nitrocellulose, the only exception being the black powder substitutes Pyrodex and Triple Seven. WACA Member. Black Powder. The maximum pressure is reached more quickly but is significantly less than smokeless powder. Who Makes Unique Powder: A Dive into the World of Innovative Powder Creators. So, I saw a . John It is the different chamber pressures, and burn rates of smokeless vs. mlylsb hdgwmgo krx ahq vnkejv xleuxm clt kscidye vhzzkywy vakj